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	<title>Comments on: Space Shuttle LIFT OFF at 24bit 96k!</title>
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	<link>http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/space-shuttle-lift-off-at-24bit-96k</link>
	<description>TIM’S OBSESSION WITH VIBRATING AIR MOLECULES</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:42:09 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/space-shuttle-lift-off-at-24bit-96k#comment-4825</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/?p=2519#comment-4825</guid>
		<description>Hi Timothy (and anyone else!),
I am a television researcher working on an engineering programme about the space shuttle and one of the things I am looking into is the Sound Suppression System.  I am at this stage trying to understand exactly how the sound is absorbed or suppressed by the water.  From Timothy&#039;s posting it sounds like the reflection is blocked - how does this occur?!  I have spoken to various scientists and there seems to be several ways in which water can absorb sound (air bubble oscillation, aerosol action and reflection scattering) and was just wondering whether you might know which processes the shuttle sound suppression system uses ?!  It would be great to speak to anyone who knows anything about this and so if possible email me - rachel.millar@darlowsmithson.com
Thanks,
Rachel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Timothy (and anyone else!),<br />
I am a television researcher working on an engineering programme about the space shuttle and one of the things I am looking into is the Sound Suppression System.  I am at this stage trying to understand exactly how the sound is absorbed or suppressed by the water.  From Timothy&#8217;s posting it sounds like the reflection is blocked &#8211; how does this occur?!  I have spoken to various scientists and there seems to be several ways in which water can absorb sound (air bubble oscillation, aerosol action and reflection scattering) and was just wondering whether you might know which processes the shuttle sound suppression system uses ?!  It would be great to speak to anyone who knows anything about this and so if possible email me &#8211; <a href="mailto:rachel.millar@darlowsmithson.com">rachel.millar@darlowsmithson.com</a><br />
Thanks,<br />
Rachel.</p>
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		<title>By: Michal Fojcik</title>
		<link>http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/space-shuttle-lift-off-at-24bit-96k#comment-3355</link>
		<dc:creator>Michal Fojcik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/?p=2519#comment-3355</guid>
		<description>Just have found Ben Burtt&#039;s comment which Tim was writing about (David Sonnenchein &quot;Sound Design&quot; book):
&quot;I was miking at various distances, but the sound didn&#039;t still sound full enough. I stuck a microphone out the window of a moving car and the wind totally distorted the recording. I took that sound, ran it through a subwoofer, took all the highs out of it, and when I added it to the production sound somehow it sounded more like the real thing than the real thing did. I can&#039;t explain that, but sometimes you have to experiment to get the best effect.&quot;

Similar thing Ben Burtt said about making sounds for Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull (http://vimeo.com/channels/41219#3037441), where distorted sound gave &quot;real&quot; element to the sound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just have found Ben Burtt&#8217;s comment which Tim was writing about (David Sonnenchein &#8220;Sound Design&#8221; book):<br />
&#8220;I was miking at various distances, but the sound didn&#8217;t still sound full enough. I stuck a microphone out the window of a moving car and the wind totally distorted the recording. I took that sound, ran it through a subwoofer, took all the highs out of it, and when I added it to the production sound somehow it sounded more like the real thing than the real thing did. I can&#8217;t explain that, but sometimes you have to experiment to get the best effect.&#8221;</p>
<p>Similar thing Ben Burtt said about making sounds for Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull (<a href="http://vimeo.com/channels/41219#3037441" rel="nofollow">http://vimeo.com/channels/41219#3037441</a>), where distorted sound gave &#8220;real&#8221; element to the sound.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Katz</title>
		<link>http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/space-shuttle-lift-off-at-24bit-96k#comment-3352</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/?p=2519#comment-3352</guid>
		<description>Dear Pokwer. Are you referring to my recording (which is now in surround at digido.com) or to someone else&#039;s recording of the shuttle?  The crackling noises you hear are also known as the &quot;cavitation&quot; or &quot;popcorn&quot; noises and these noises can ONLY be heard at less than 5 miles from the launch site! 

This is the genuine sound that the shuttle makes and some theorize that it is caused by a vacuum and the air that rushes in to fill the gap, much like a thunderclap. 

Obviously, inferior mike preamplifiers will distort this sound and it could easily sound distorted as the high frequency peaks are quite high (see the spectragram at digido.com) but I can assure you that they are VERY accurately recorded and not distorted on the super-clean recording which I have made.

Hope this helps.


Bob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Pokwer. Are you referring to my recording (which is now in surround at digido.com) or to someone else&#8217;s recording of the shuttle?  The crackling noises you hear are also known as the &#8220;cavitation&#8221; or &#8220;popcorn&#8221; noises and these noises can ONLY be heard at less than 5 miles from the launch site! </p>
<p>This is the genuine sound that the shuttle makes and some theorize that it is caused by a vacuum and the air that rushes in to fill the gap, much like a thunderclap. </p>
<p>Obviously, inferior mike preamplifiers will distort this sound and it could easily sound distorted as the high frequency peaks are quite high (see the spectragram at digido.com) but I can assure you that they are VERY accurately recorded and not distorted on the super-clean recording which I have made.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Bob</p>
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		<title>By: pokwer</title>
		<link>http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/space-shuttle-lift-off-at-24bit-96k#comment-3318</link>
		<dc:creator>pokwer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/?p=2519#comment-3318</guid>
		<description>This is fascinating... and awesome.  I didn&#039;t realize the extent of the LF content in the recordings until I took the screens off my monitors and watched the drivers flail around.  I have never heard subs which could begin to do this recording justice.  I think I&#039;m just going to have to go and witness the real thing one day!

   &quot;Think of it as an 8.3 GWatt amplifier/loudspeaker with 
    zero percent distortion and response down to DC!&quot;

I wonder if the crackling sound has something to do with the distortions in the air itself due to the extreme (215dB)SPL?  I read somewhere that above around 194dB, the rarefacted part of the wave becomes a perfect vacuum and thus clips the waveform valleys...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is fascinating&#8230; and awesome.  I didn&#8217;t realize the extent of the LF content in the recordings until I took the screens off my monitors and watched the drivers flail around.  I have never heard subs which could begin to do this recording justice.  I think I&#8217;m just going to have to go and witness the real thing one day!</p>
<p>   &#8220;Think of it as an 8.3 GWatt amplifier/loudspeaker with<br />
    zero percent distortion and response down to DC!&#8221;</p>
<p>I wonder if the crackling sound has something to do with the distortions in the air itself due to the extreme (215dB)SPL?  I read somewhere that above around 194dB, the rarefacted part of the wave becomes a perfect vacuum and thus clips the waveform valleys&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy</title>
		<link>http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/space-shuttle-lift-off-at-24bit-96k#comment-3317</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/?p=2519#comment-3317</guid>
		<description>When the Space Shuttle launches, the sound emitted from the engines creates a tremendous amount of acoustical pressure.  Acoustical levels reach their peak when the Space Shuttle is about 300 feet (91 meters) above the launch platform, and cease to be a problem at an altitude of about 1,000 feet (305 meters). 
 
During the first Space Shuttle launch in 1981, acoustical pressure caused by the main engines / solid rocket boosters igniting was so great that it caused damage to the shuttle wing’s control surfaces. 
 
At launch, the sound pressure level is: 215 dB (http://www.makeitlouder.com/Decibel%20Level%20Chart.txt)

Space Shuttle payload bay is rated for a maximum pressure of: 145 dB
 
 
The solution to prevent these high sound pressure levels from damaging future shuttles was to design a water based sound suppression system.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/launch/sound-suppression-system.html
http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/nasafact/count4ssws.htm
 
This system starts to unleash 1,135,620 liters of stored water 6.6 seconds before solid rocket booster ignition.  The water flows through huge pipes and is sprayed below the rockets to help suppress the acoustical pressure.  The water helps to block the reflected path of the sound so it cannot bounce back towards the shuttle.  With the system in place the sound pressure is reduced to 142 dB, which is just 3dB below the design requirement.
 
To make sure the sound pressure levels from the engines are constant, they are occasionally measured.  When the engines are test fired at the test ranges in Utah, NASA engineers wire the engine with microphones and place more microphones down range to record how much pressure is being outputted.  Check out this “Daily Planet” documentary on testing the engines for sound and vibration (Sept 28, 2007):
http://broadband.discoverychannel.ca/discovery/?id=3539  
(I love how fast the engine goes from OFF to ON.  AWESOME !!)
 
 
And for a rocket engine test with some cool audio, check out this video of NASA’s new “methane” powered engine. (I love the drone at the end when the engine turns off…..)
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/images/methaneblast/testfiring.wmv
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/04may_methaneblast.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the Space Shuttle launches, the sound emitted from the engines creates a tremendous amount of acoustical pressure.  Acoustical levels reach their peak when the Space Shuttle is about 300 feet (91 meters) above the launch platform, and cease to be a problem at an altitude of about 1,000 feet (305 meters). </p>
<p>During the first Space Shuttle launch in 1981, acoustical pressure caused by the main engines / solid rocket boosters igniting was so great that it caused damage to the shuttle wing’s control surfaces. </p>
<p>At launch, the sound pressure level is: 215 dB (<a href="http://www.makeitlouder.com/Decibel%20Level%20Chart.txt" rel="nofollow">http://www.makeitlouder.com/Decibel%20Level%20Chart.txt</a>)</p>
<p>Space Shuttle payload bay is rated for a maximum pressure of: 145 dB</p>
<p>The solution to prevent these high sound pressure levels from damaging future shuttles was to design a water based sound suppression system.<br />
<a href="http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/launch/sound-suppression-system.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/launch/sound-suppression-system.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/nasafact/count4ssws.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/nasafact/count4ssws.htm</a></p>
<p>This system starts to unleash 1,135,620 liters of stored water 6.6 seconds before solid rocket booster ignition.  The water flows through huge pipes and is sprayed below the rockets to help suppress the acoustical pressure.  The water helps to block the reflected path of the sound so it cannot bounce back towards the shuttle.  With the system in place the sound pressure is reduced to 142 dB, which is just 3dB below the design requirement.</p>
<p>To make sure the sound pressure levels from the engines are constant, they are occasionally measured.  When the engines are test fired at the test ranges in Utah, NASA engineers wire the engine with microphones and place more microphones down range to record how much pressure is being outputted.  Check out this “Daily Planet” documentary on testing the engines for sound and vibration (Sept 28, 2007):<br />
<a href="http://broadband.discoverychannel.ca/discovery/?id=3539" rel="nofollow">http://broadband.discoverychannel.ca/discovery/?id=3539</a><br />
(I love how fast the engine goes from OFF to ON.  AWESOME !!)</p>
<p>And for a rocket engine test with some cool audio, check out this video of NASA’s new “methane” powered engine. (I love the drone at the end when the engine turns off…..)<br />
<a href="http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/images/methaneblast/testfiring.wmv" rel="nofollow">http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/images/methaneblast/testfiring.wmv</a><br />
<a href="http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/04may_methaneblast.htm" rel="nofollow">http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/04may_methaneblast.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: tim</title>
		<link>http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/space-shuttle-lift-off-at-24bit-96k#comment-3313</link>
		<dc:creator>tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/?p=2519#comment-3313</guid>
		<description>re dynamic range etc, have a read of the section at Bob Katz site re analysing his Shuttle recordings with SpectraFoo&quot;

&quot;Through the magic of Spectrafoo&#039;s audio analysis tools, the audio &quot;portrait&quot; below demonstrates that there&#039;s nothing like being there. The spectragram runs from T minus 4 seconds to about T plus 2 minutes. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s anything on earth that compares with the sound and sight of that fire-breathing monster on liftoff. If you study these incredible specs, including a spectragramic timeline of the liftoff, you will see that to do justice to the experience, you will need a low-distortion subwoofer system capable of producing up to ~119 dB SPL on peaks at 25 Hz and ~116 dB SPL at 16 Hz and below! If not, then you will not be able to feel the chest-thumping, clean solid bottom that is produced. Ironically, the shuttle liftoff from the VIP site is &quot;just loud enough&quot; in person, a pleasant and not ear-damaging experience. Think of it as an 8.3 GWatt amplifier/loudspeaker with zero percent distortion and response down to DC! Running at say, 40% efficiency, that would take 20 thousand megawatts from the breaker box! Those figures are calculated by Dick Pierce from the comparable Saturn 5 moon rocket. These are the figures at 0 foot distance. Of course, some power has been dissipated at 3.1 miles, but examine the astonishing figures below.

It turns out an LFE channel is not needed to reproduce this recording with a properly bass-managed system, because &quot;bass&quot; is the focus of this recording and it requires turning up the gain by 7 dB ABOVE Dolby standard. However, it could not be engineered to reproduce at Dolby Standard monitor gain without redirecting the bass to an LFE channel or it would overload the digital level. But then the bass would not be in stereo, and the shuttle definitely sounds better to me with stereo bass.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re dynamic range etc, have a read of the section at Bob Katz site re analysing his Shuttle recordings with SpectraFoo&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Through the magic of Spectrafoo&#8217;s audio analysis tools, the audio &#8220;portrait&#8221; below demonstrates that there&#8217;s nothing like being there. The spectragram runs from T minus 4 seconds to about T plus 2 minutes. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything on earth that compares with the sound and sight of that fire-breathing monster on liftoff. If you study these incredible specs, including a spectragramic timeline of the liftoff, you will see that to do justice to the experience, you will need a low-distortion subwoofer system capable of producing up to ~119 dB SPL on peaks at 25 Hz and ~116 dB SPL at 16 Hz and below! If not, then you will not be able to feel the chest-thumping, clean solid bottom that is produced. Ironically, the shuttle liftoff from the VIP site is &#8220;just loud enough&#8221; in person, a pleasant and not ear-damaging experience. Think of it as an 8.3 GWatt amplifier/loudspeaker with zero percent distortion and response down to DC! Running at say, 40% efficiency, that would take 20 thousand megawatts from the breaker box! Those figures are calculated by Dick Pierce from the comparable Saturn 5 moon rocket. These are the figures at 0 foot distance. Of course, some power has been dissipated at 3.1 miles, but examine the astonishing figures below.</p>
<p>It turns out an LFE channel is not needed to reproduce this recording with a properly bass-managed system, because &#8220;bass&#8221; is the focus of this recording and it requires turning up the gain by 7 dB ABOVE Dolby standard. However, it could not be engineered to reproduce at Dolby Standard monitor gain without redirecting the bass to an LFE channel or it would overload the digital level. But then the bass would not be in stereo, and the shuttle definitely sounds better to me with stereo bass.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: tim</title>
		<link>http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/space-shuttle-lift-off-at-24bit-96k#comment-3312</link>
		<dc:creator>tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/?p=2519#comment-3312</guid>
		<description>I remember reading about Ben Burt doing sound for that DVD and he just couldn&#039;t get the launch sounding &#039;right&#039; until he added some distorted elements (I tried to find where I read this but haven&#039;t yet) but two things to consider: most of the energy is surely going to the subwoofer, which wont make crackle sounds... but more importantly unless you have heard it with your own ears its hard to gauge how close the recording is to reality. But the mics he used can handle up to 134dB SPL:
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=item&amp;category=188&amp;item=24019</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember reading about Ben Burt doing sound for that DVD and he just couldn&#8217;t get the launch sounding &#8216;right&#8217; until he added some distorted elements (I tried to find where I read this but haven&#8217;t yet) but two things to consider: most of the energy is surely going to the subwoofer, which wont make crackle sounds&#8230; but more importantly unless you have heard it with your own ears its hard to gauge how close the recording is to reality. But the mics he used can handle up to 134dB SPL:<br />
<a href="http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=item&#038;category=188&#038;item=24019" rel="nofollow">http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=item&#038;category=188&#038;item=24019</a></p>
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		<title>By: Buck</title>
		<link>http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/space-shuttle-lift-off-at-24bit-96k#comment-3311</link>
		<dc:creator>Buck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 15:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/?p=2519#comment-3311</guid>
		<description>Excellent post!  Lot&#039;s of fun stuff...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post!  Lot&#8217;s of fun stuff&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: pokwer</title>
		<link>http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/space-shuttle-lift-off-at-24bit-96k#comment-3310</link>
		<dc:creator>pokwer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/?p=2519#comment-3310</guid>
		<description>It is a spectacular feat of engineering... buuut, is it just me or is most of the dynamic range in this (24/96) recording taken up by massive deformation of the mic diaphragm, like the crumpling of a bread wrapper, or the crackling of a flame?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a spectacular feat of engineering&#8230; buuut, is it just me or is most of the dynamic range in this (24/96) recording taken up by massive deformation of the mic diaphragm, like the crumpling of a bread wrapper, or the crackling of a flame?</p>
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