Comments on: The role of Sound Effects in film… http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/the-role-of-sound-effects-in-film OBSESSED WITH VIBRATING AIR MOLECULES Sun, 12 Feb 2012 02:55:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Role of SFX « twenty thousand hertz http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/the-role-of-sound-effects-in-film#comment-11380 Role of SFX « twenty thousand hertz Mon, 28 Feb 2011 19:14:29 +0000 http://substation.co.nz/blog/?p=499#comment-11380 [...] all the time?’ What contemporary dubbing is doing is taking all our imagination away from us.”  read more... Tagged as: Film Sound, Music, Sound Design Leave a comment Comments (0) Trackbacks (0) ( [...] [...] all the time?’ What contemporary dubbing is doing is taking all our imagination away from us.”  read more… Tagged as: Film Sound, Music, Sound Design Leave a comment Comments (0) Trackbacks (0) ( [...]

]]> By: tim http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/the-role-of-sound-effects-in-film#comment-4006 tim Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:57:58 +0000 http://substation.co.nz/blog/?p=499#comment-4006 thats a fair comment re generalising about academics although might I detect a raw nerve being struck? Calling someone "unintentionally funny" and being able to detect their occupation by use of a term is hardly "knocking en masse" And my comment about "welcome to the real world" was inferring "welcome to the real world of <em>making films</em>" as opposed to analysing them, after the fact. re the use of the term diegetic/non-diegetic - I would feel differently if a single person had used that term with me even ONCE, and not just me and my "sound design buddies" I mean writers, directors, picture editors, mixers. In my 20 years of experience, it is simply not a term used by practitioners when making films. And of course the concept is apparent to me, I would have thought that went without saying. And of course these concepts are discussed, but not via categorising them as diegetic or non-diegetic... thats a fair comment re generalising about academics although might I detect a raw nerve being struck? Calling someone “unintentionally funny” and being able to detect their occupation by use of a term is hardly “knocking en masse”

And my comment about “welcome to the real world” was inferring “welcome to the real world of making films” as opposed to analysing them, after the fact.

re the use of the term diegetic/non-diegetic – I would feel differently if a single person had used that term with me even ONCE, and not just me and my “sound design buddies” I mean writers, directors, picture editors, mixers. In my 20 years of experience, it is simply not a term used by practitioners when making films. And of course the concept is apparent to me, I would have thought that went without saying. And of course these concepts are discussed, but not via categorising them as diegetic or non-diegetic…

]]> By: robin http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/the-role-of-sound-effects-in-film#comment-4005 robin Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:47:31 +0000 http://substation.co.nz/blog/?p=499#comment-4005 You state that the sound workshop was "mainly for short film directors, producers etc". You might consider that at the macro level of narrative control they work at, they do indeed need to know the difference between diegetic and non-diegetic sound. And yes, this concerns you, as they will be making choices about which of your SFX to include based (in part) on that distinction. Though you may never have used these terms when talking to your sound design buddies, I sure hope the concepts have shaped your appreciation of film sound. Otherwise you're limiting yourself. Your concluding appeal to the "real world" is especially ironic given that the difference between the "real" and the "narrative" worlds of film is precisely what these terms exist to describe. P.S. It is so lame to knock "academics" <i>en masse</i>. Such a cheap appeal to popular anti-intellectual sentiment! And in this case doubly inappropriate; you are stooping to the same level as Elfman when he tars all sound designers with the same brush. You state that the sound workshop was “mainly for short film directors, producers etc”. You might consider that at the macro level of narrative control they work at, they do indeed need to know the difference between diegetic and non-diegetic sound. And yes, this concerns you, as they will be making choices about which of your SFX to include based (in part) on that distinction.

Though you may never have used these terms when talking to your sound design buddies, I sure hope the concepts have shaped your appreciation of film sound. Otherwise you’re limiting yourself. Your concluding appeal to the “real world” is especially ironic given that the difference between the “real” and the “narrative” worlds of film is precisely what these terms exist to describe.

P.S. It is so lame to knock “academics” en masse. Such a cheap appeal to popular anti-intellectual sentiment! And in this case doubly inappropriate; you are stooping to the same level as Elfman when he tars all sound designers with the same brush.

]]> By: Randy Thom http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/the-role-of-sound-effects-in-film#comment-3908 Randy Thom Thu, 29 Oct 2009 03:21:19 +0000 http://substation.co.nz/blog/?p=499#comment-3908 If you read all of Mr. Sergi's article you'll see that when he refers to the "vulgarity" of sound effects, and lists sound effects in the chart as "technical" rather than "artistic" he is describing the common perception of sound effects, not his own perception of sound effects. He probably should have labeled the chart better so that it would be clear that it wasn't expressing his opinion. Randy Thom If you read all of Mr. Sergi’s article you’ll see that when he refers to the “vulgarity” of sound effects, and lists sound effects in the chart as “technical” rather than “artistic” he is describing the common perception of sound effects, not his own perception of sound effects. He probably should have labeled the chart better so that it would be clear that it wasn’t expressing his opinion.

Randy Thom

]]> By: Designing Sound » More than 50 Articles/Tutorials about Sound Design, Recording and more, Plus Wooshes Sound Desing http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/the-role-of-sound-effects-in-film#comment-3893 Designing Sound » More than 50 Articles/Tutorials about Sound Design, Recording and more, Plus Wooshes Sound Desing Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:13:09 +0000 http://substation.co.nz/blog/?p=499#comment-3893 [...] The Role of Sound Effects in Film [...] [...] The Role of Sound Effects in Film [...]

]]> By: Round-Up: Samples, Stealing, Fakery, the Law, and Lots of Sample Shenanigans, The role of Sound Effects in film, CDM Holiday Guide Reader Survey, Bleep Labs » BitBlob http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/the-role-of-sound-effects-in-film#comment-590 Round-Up: Samples, Stealing, Fakery, the Law, and Lots of Sample Shenanigans, The role of Sound Effects in film, CDM Holiday Guide Reader Survey, Bleep Labs » BitBlob Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:32:42 +0000 http://substation.co.nz/blog/?p=499#comment-590 [...] The role of Sound Effects in film… — Tim @ the music of sound shares some interesting thoughts on something Danny Elfman said a [...] [...] The role of Sound Effects in film… — Tim @ the music of sound shares some interesting thoughts on something Danny Elfman said a [...]

]]> By: Jose http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/the-role-of-sound-effects-in-film#comment-591 Jose Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:39:42 +0000 http://substation.co.nz/blog/?p=499#comment-591 I think that both are complementary, is an art. It is easy to realize when the sound engineer and musician does not understand very well ... the other day was looking for second time Before Sunset, its a movie that has no music at all, the sound was impeccable, the silences .. .. everything was in place...Its a team work, they need to understand, if they dont it will probbably result in a very lousy movie. I think Music is no necessary and sound design either, But if they help to tell the history like in most cases it can become a regular history into something really interesting. I think that both are complementary, is an art. It is easy to realize when the sound engineer and musician does not understand very well … the other day was looking for second time Before Sunset, its a movie that has no music at all, the sound was impeccable, the silences .. .. everything was in place…Its a team work, they need to understand, if they dont it will probbably result in a very lousy movie.

I think Music is no necessary and sound design either, But if they help to tell the history like in most cases it can become a regular history into something really interesting.

]]> By: leyton http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/the-role-of-sound-effects-in-film#comment-592 leyton Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:52:04 +0000 http://substation.co.nz/blog/?p=499#comment-592 having been on the academic side ( teaching fellow at a uni in music technology) my experience is that there are certain doers and certain talkers, and that is fine until you notice that the talkers never actually get anything done.. (this is particularly frustrating if they are your "boss" and they talk rubbish, whilst supposedly employed as a "doer" :-). there were, of course other profs that could both talk the talk and walk the walk, these are the people to seek.... on the otherside i did a "film music" third year paper a couple of years ago that the first essay topic was on diegetic vs non diegetic, but there was no class discussion about it and even less practical demonstration on this ( i think) very important idea but then agian the paper was light on content ... and having been in the television music production scene for about 8 years, i have never , like tim, heard anyone use the word.... the relationship of music to sfx is a special one and i dont bat for either side, even though i do music, as ive heard sfx create amazing "mood and emotion" and crap music leave me sterile.. both mediums can perform purely utilitarian roles AND those of the abstract, enhancing, and defining...i believe there is always a "best" balance to be found.. to paraphrase tim ..if you notice it its wrong... even for those of us that spend a lot of time critically listening to film sound... the BIGGEST issue i have with film sound is when it is two loud.. that is completely unnecessary... i went to a sci-fi film a few years ago and sat in the theatre with my fingers in my ears the whole time ( until i walked out)... it was damagingly loud and razor sharp... and those horsemen blokes in LOTR !!! bloody hell razors at high shelf corrall..shite!!!... oh and elfmans music is rubbish.. having been on the academic side ( teaching fellow at a uni in music technology) my experience is that there are certain doers and certain talkers, and that is fine until you notice that the talkers never actually get anything done.. (this is particularly frustrating if they are your “boss” and they talk rubbish, whilst supposedly employed as a “doer” :-) . there were, of course other profs that could both talk the talk and walk the walk, these are the people to seek…. on the otherside i did a “film music” third year paper a couple of years ago that the first essay topic was on diegetic vs non diegetic, but there was no class discussion about it and even less practical demonstration on this
( i think) very important idea but then agian the paper was light on content … and having been in the television music production scene for about 8 years, i have never , like tim, heard anyone use the word….

the relationship of music to sfx is a special one and i dont bat for either side, even though i do music, as ive heard sfx create amazing “mood and emotion” and crap music leave me sterile.. both mediums can perform purely utilitarian roles AND those of the abstract, enhancing, and defining…i believe there is always a “best” balance to be found.. to paraphrase tim ..if you notice it its wrong… even for those of us that spend a lot of time critically listening to film sound…

the BIGGEST issue i have with film sound is when it is two loud.. that is completely unnecessary… i went to a sci-fi film a few years ago and sat in the theatre with my fingers in my ears the whole time ( until i walked out)… it was damagingly loud and razor sharp… and those horsemen blokes in LOTR !!! bloody hell razors at high shelf corrall..shite!!!…

oh and elfmans music is rubbish..

]]> By: david v http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/the-role-of-sound-effects-in-film#comment-596 david v Sat, 15 Nov 2008 11:36:09 +0000 http://substation.co.nz/blog/?p=499#comment-596 A big modesty and/or a big vicious spirit. Working with less codes than music or litterature doesn't mean we, sfx poeple, can't tell more, it just mean we are saying it underneath, talking directly to those spots that react without the possibility to be analised ... But we could rephrase : A big modesty or a big complex of being left alone. Working with less codes than music or litterature doesn't mean we, sfx poeple, can't speak loud, it just mean we are saying it over 100 Db, talking directly to those spots that can't react anymore ... A big modesty and/or a big vicious spirit.

Working with less codes than music or litterature doesn’t mean we, sfx poeple, can’t tell more, it just mean we are saying it underneath, talking directly to those spots that react without the possibility to be analised …

But we could rephrase :

A big modesty or a big complex of being left alone.

Working with less codes than music or litterature doesn’t mean we, sfx poeple, can’t speak loud, it just mean we are saying it over 100 Db, talking directly to those spots that can’t react anymore …

]]> By: Andrew Spitz http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/the-role-of-sound-effects-in-film#comment-593 Andrew Spitz Sat, 15 Nov 2008 11:09:48 +0000 http://substation.co.nz/blog/?p=499#comment-593 An entertaining and insightful read. As per usual. Thanks Tim! An entertaining and insightful read. As per usual.
Thanks Tim!

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