Ok heres an update on naming conventions for THE DOORS library, please point out any issues, shortcomings or ideas – Based on this system a file like:
DOOR Church front wood EXT open close hard slam TP.L.wav
DOOR Church front wood EXT open close hard slam TP.R.wav
would include both the close and wide perspective
DOOR [building] [door type] [material] [INT or EXT] [actions] [recordist initials]
So heres what my uploaded folder would look like:
close and wide perspective in sequence then, within the file?
i think all the close perspective first (they will get used most often) then the wide perspective…
so with the open/close do you want all 5 of the opens edited together or alternate opening and closing?
I think as performed ie open 1, close 1, open 2 close 2, open 3, close 3 etc..
Jim Morrison would be proud
This looks very clear. I have two other suggestions:
1 – I think it might be a good idea if you gave everybody an actual finished audio-set of one door, just an mp3 or so. If we all use that as a reference when editing our recordings we’ll have roughly the same loudness, structure of content and pauses between the takes and stuff like that. It would make the library more consistent and clear.
2 – We might also want to include some more important parameters of the type of door in the filename. What about how the door works, as in: Regular, Slide, Fold, Trap – maybe also the rough absolute size, like Small (like a cupboard door), Normal, Large (big gate). If you do this in a standardized way (and in ALL filenames) you can easily get to all the the normal size regular doors, or the large size slide doors or whatever. This is different from typing regular metadata, because it is standardized. It should go in the end of the filename though, to not be in the way of more important descriptions when actually working with the files in your DAW.
So your church door might be named something like this:
DOOR Church front wood EXT open close hard slam LARGE REGULAR TP.wav
And the folding door to your porch might be called this:
DOOR Porch front plastic EXT open close soft NORMAL FOLD TP.wav
A proposition if we write how the door works :
I suppose most of the doors will be REGULAR, so maybe we don’t have to write REGULAR on each of them, just explaining when it’s not REGULAR would be enough
so SLIDE-FOLD-TRAP-
Question to the folders :
Maybe we also need to write our initial in the folder’s name in order not to have multiple folders with the same name and problems to upload ?
I agree, no need for regular, just descriptors for special doors would be nice.
good point!
Well, less typing is good, but it defeats the idea of being able to search for regular doors only — unless you search for “door – exclude slide – exclude fold – exclude trap” which is a lot of typing in later stages (EVERY time you want to search for a regular door)
I think the same about size – if its a house door its not going to be LARGE is it?
Specifying normality seems redundant to me
Just a suggestion. If nobody agrees, nevermind.
Do you want the files as split stereo? Is that how you store you files?
M.
yes
i have no use for interleaved stereo
I think that most people will very much prefer interleaved stereo for their sound-library. Split stereo doubles the file-count and you to have to skip every second filename when searching in your library because it’s the same as the one before. I mean I also work in ProTools, but I copy all FX into the project-folder anyway when I import, so they become split-files at that moment.
I am happy for you to voice your opinion but I think you should speak for yourself, not generalise on your perception of ‘most people’?
I use SoundMiner which displays split stereo as a single file, and I suspect most people use a secondary app for library management & access… which makes it a non-issue
I’ll set up a survey if enough people request interleaved stereo, but if the library were delivered interleaved the first thing I would do is de-interleave them…
I’m with Max, I’d prefer interleaved, but I can take the files either way, it doesn’t really matter in the end for me. I’ll deliver whatever the consensus decides is best.
I’m not part of the recording but I would be interested in buying the final library. If it was all in split stereo it would put me off, I would prefer interleaved. But that might be just me.
Sorry for generalizing. Would it be possible to batch-convert the whole thing to interleaved in the end, so we can download whatever format fits best? Barba-Batch does this.
I’ve checked with a few people since & interleaved may be the majority – I’ll set that survey up!
I’ll vote for interleaved, though only mildly. Soundminer works with split stereo fine, but only stores the metadata in the .L file, leaving half of the files without metadata.
I am not a sound designer but a sound artist. I do not use any special library software. Split files are a pain for those like me who would otherwise like such a library. In fact, all the sound and sample libraries I have used are interleaved. Not sure if this is a difference in industry standards.
If I get time this weekend I will record, edit & prep a set of recordings of one door, but its more likely to be a week or so from now – I’m mid way through final mix on a film & have too much else on at present..
What film? =)
same one I was recording Shifter Karts for a month ago
http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/shifter-kart-fx-recording
its called HOPES & DREAMS
directed by Brendan Donovan
produced by Robin Scholes
I think an example wav file (maybe just one pair of a left right split) would be helpful.
oops, I just realised max already asked this question..
about initials: it is possible we might have some conflicts with people having the same initials. should we database our initials beforehand to avoid a renaming job for tim?
-ML
i have a google docs spreadsheet with everyones name etc in it, maybe i share that with everyone?
this might be a dumb question, but what exactly is metadata?
is it a set of tags to identify the sample?
is it used to create a marker for the beggining of each sample?
is the metadata information stores ‘within’ the file or is it a seperate file?
I’m a little worried because without access to pro tools (which I am to understand I will need to put the metadata into the files) I may not be able to deliver the files as required.
I couldn’t find anything online that described the use of metadata within sound files accurately enough to know how to get it into the samples.
Metadata is simply a way of adding more text info into a .WAV file, seperate to the file name. It is a part of the .WAV file
Don’t panic about it yet – wait until I test the sound devices free metadata app….
Would be nice to add picture to metadata, do you know if it is already possible (or is there any future plans …) ?
I dont think thats possible – but everyone MUST include a photo of the door in each folder of sounds…
Actually in Soundminer it is possible, but I’m not sure if that will translate into other programs.
As discussed already Soundminer metadata is not readable in other apps…
My cursory research says that the wav and bwav spec doesn’t support album art, and the way that most programs deal with the issue is proprietary to the specific program. IOW soundminer handles it differently than itunes, etc, so that probably rules it out as far as distributing a library with cross-platform embedded images.
FWIW, I’d love for the photos of the doors to at least be included in the deliverable inside of the folders of the recordings (since you’ll have the photos anyway). In fact I’d pay extra for that because a visual of the sound recorded is immensely helpful when searching my library. I would end up just tagging the images in SM after the fact. I actually tagged all of the veggie violence and swish sounds that we purchased from you with the kewl photographs you put on your site, just as a general marker.
Again, I religiously photograph the sounds that I record for my library both as a mic and mic placement ref and as a visual ref of what I’m hearing. Makes my face happier and my life easier when pulling sounds. 🙂
aye, thats exactly why i’ve asked for photos!
soundminer does embed photos into the metadata of the wav files FWIW. I use that religiously, but it may be SM specific.
I would love to know your findings with SDs Wave Agent. I use it and also PT and Soundminer, but it’s not always logical to exchange metadata between the applications and BWAV BEXT, iXML etc
Greetings,
Thierry
We’ll have a problem the minute two contributor has files that go into the same folder – say, “apartment kitchen wood INT” – then the different files would get mixed together, due to the naming convention.
Now if you do initials first, then the rest of the file name, then the problem would disappear.
No, definitely not initials first – that makes no sense, eg when the files are in the PT regionlist you want DOORs grouped together, not randomnly sorted by initials
And the files will not be added to the same folder, they will be sorted/grouped in nested folders like this:
> DOOR Apartment (folder)
___> DOOR Apartment bathroom wood INT TP (folder)
___> DOOR Apartment front wood EXT CT (folder)
___> DOOR Apartment lounge wood INT TP (folder)
> DOOR Church (folder)
___> DOOR Church front wood EXT CT (folder)
___> DOOR Church front wood EXT RS (folder)
> DOOR House (folder)
___> DOOR House bathroom wood INT TP (folder)
___> DOOR House front wood EXT CT (folder)
___> DOOR House lounge wood INT TP (folder)
So inside the DOOR Apartment folder will be a folder for each apartment door thats been submitted – You can’t have too many files in one directory without it slowing down the OS, so for that reason & also so files dont get out of order, they will always stay in their own folder….
Is there a chance that two people have the same initials btw?
If we are 114 recordists it is a pretty big chance that some of the people will have the same initials. =)
What about three letter initials? I often like to tag my FX CMJ, there’s less likely going to be another CMJ, than a CJ.
Thats kinda nice!
I was also going to ask about initials. Three letters gets my vote for avoiding issues, but still there will have to be a central list.
Tim Prebble wrote that he has a master database of the recordists offering to be involved… If there’s an issue with matching initials, he’ll easily be able to tell us. If so, three initials makes sense. You can always put your full name in the metadata description field too, if you want.
What I plan to do is late next week (once I have the contributor document ready) I will send a group email to everyone, which will include:
– contributor agreement
– contribution deadline (June 12)
– final delivery specs (interleaved is leading the survey)
– ftp details
– list of names of all contributors with suggested initials
On the ftp site I’ll also upload an example set of door recordings…
We have 147 recordists but 22 haven’t replied to the reward email – I’ll send them one last email on monday before deleting them…
I also imagine 10% of the recordists won’t make the deadline, please prove me wrong 😉
Incase there is an issue with their email heres a list of people who haven’t replied – please email me confirmation to the reward email that has been sent to you twice now…
Andrea Damiano
Andreas Wetterberg
Andrew CricitalDistance
Carla Murray
Dave Evans
David Bondelevitch
David Das
E Z Smith
Eric Shepherd
Frank Van Bracht
Grant Finlay
Hayden East
iLee
Mike Caslake
Mungi
Ryan Wilson
Sebastian Pohle
Thierry
Thomas Assembyline
TJ Milian
Victor Buruiana
Vitaly